Tumbling: Operator Error

[Tela]

This comes from the land of stupid.

I have a Lortone 3a that I've used the heck out of for over 10 years. A few years ago, I bought some new mixed shot for it and threw it in. Shortly after, I began to have problems with it and tried a million solutions. Today, while troubleshooting AGAIN to get it to run faster and not stall, my husband started looking up stuff online to try. At that point- It dawned on me to weight the thing. Yeah, that should have been my first thought, right? Duh! So, I weighed it and it was like 5.5 lbs!!!! It supposed to weigh 3 lbs. Thinking back, I realized that when I got the new shot, I just threw it in without removing the old shot. What a brain fart. I can't believe it has taken this long to figure out. Now, it is humming away with no problems. I'm really amazed though that I didn't burn out the motor. And, it DID turn, just not as well as it should have. That should say something about these things.

As a result of our quest to "fix" this thing, my husband found an awesome thread of maintenance tips that he is going to edit for me and I will put it up here, as well (with the original link).

[Renate]

High tech challenged? ;D

Congrats for finally finding out!

[Tela]

I had to laugh, or I would cry.

[livewire]

I laughed, too, Tela! I have a Lortone 3a also, and it's good to know that they are so well made that they'll keep on running, no matter what!

I have a tumbler-related question. I use several drops of blue Dawn dishwashing liquid, enough so there is a barrel-full of suds (less than half-full with water). I was recently told that using so much detergent would damage the barrel.

I tried using just 2 drops, had hardly any suds and my jewelry wasn't as shiny as usual.

Any info or ideas?

Thanks,
Joyce

[Tela]

Hi Joyce- I've never heard that before. I use Dawn- a heavy squirt- and I don't have problems. I fill the tumbler with cushioning pellets and water, too, though. I don't think that would make it any different. Dawn is not only good for the jewelry, it is also good for lubricating the shot. In all honesty, I don't see where what you are doing could cause damage. I've never had any damage to my barrel. Before I used Dawn, I used shavings from a block of Ivory soap and that never hurt it, either. I prefer the Dawn. Sometimes, the Ivory left a deposit on things- not so with Dawn.

I think if you filled the tumbler with water, it would be more gentle on the jewelry and still get the job done. You might need less soap, too.

[livewire]

Thanks, Tela. I tumble mostly small stuff ... findings, jumprings, earrings, finished chainmaille pieces. When I first got the tumbler, I was told to fill water to 1" above shot and jewelry, so it's always been less than half. Has that changed? I guess I could try less soap, but maille really needs a good cleaning/burnishing to look great.

Joyce

[Kate]

I'm just finishing up a gold chainmaille bracelet. The rings are very soft. My fear is that when I tumble, the jump rings are so soft that they will come apart. Could that happen? Maybe this is a stupid question but I'm very fearful of having to pick all of my rings out and start over again. lol

[kay]

Kate, I tumble my maille all the time, and have never had any of my gold rings pull apart. (I use gold-fill)

When you are opening and closing your rings as you weave, you are work hardening them already, so they should hold their shape just fine. The tumbling action will actually help to harden them further, making your bracelet stronger.

And think about it...If they would pull apart during tumbling, they would pull apart during normal wear anyway!

[Kate]

Thanks Kay, I just completed it. It's a Roosa weave and very delicate looking. When I was working with it there were several gold beads that kept working their way off the jump rings. I know it can't be worn the way it is and has to be hardened more. I'll be tumbling it tomorrow. It just seems like the rings are exceptional soft. I'm used to working with stainless steel which is so completely opposite!

[Tela]

Joyce,
I had to smile when I read that. It seems each person you talk to has their own way of tumbling. There is nothing wrong with what either of us is doing. I was always told to fill it all the way up, and it works great, so that's what I do. If your way works, then do it your way. But, if you think it could be better, try some more water, not less soap. Soap works by suspending the dirt particles in water: the more water; the more dirt can be suspended away from the jewelry.

[livewire]

Kate,
I have never done maille with stainless steel, which I understand is the hardest metal for that. I make most of my own rings, and tumble twice. First, the jumprings right after they are made, and then again for the finished piece. I think the tumbled rings are much easier to weave.

Joyce

[Kate]

Yesterday I finished another chain maille bracelet. The first one is gold filled and the second one is Argentium and gold filled. After a few hours in the tumbler, I checked on them and they were gray and dull. I changed the water and tried again. After an hour I checked again and they were looking better. After four hours they were grey again. So again I rinsed the shot and cleaned the the tumbler. Once again it is tumbling. Has this happened to anyone? I usually don't tumble this long but the rings are very soft.

[Tela]

Since gold fill and Argentium are very low tarnish- I have to suspect that your barrel was dirty or contaminated. Did you use LOS or copper in it recently? If so, maybe a good rinse with hot baking soda water? Baking soda is supposed to be a neutralizer for LOS.

[Kate]

OH no! Tela, thats exactly what I have done. Most everything I do in is copper. I always used the LOS after tumbling. I did wash the barrel but I'll try the baking soda. Thanks!

[shiny]

I had that experience once. I tumbled everything the same way as always and it came out dull and gray. Somebody suggested I clean my tumbler by running it for an hour with Coke (that's Coca-Cola). This struck me as a rather stupid idea, but ...

After an hour tumbling shot and about 1/2 cup of Coke, I rinsed my shot and re-tumbled the dull and gray items. Everything came out sparkly and shiny! I don't know how or why it works, but it's definitely worth a try.

[Kate]

I tried washing the barrel with baking soda and also put some in the shot and washed it out. The discoloration in the Argentium (it almost looked like all gold) didn't come out after tumbling for another hour. I ended up using my shining cloth and buffing it out. Maybe that's and idea, I should try baking soda with the shot and tumbling for an hour to clean it. Or even the coke.

[Tela]

Kate! Lordy be, don't mix that baking soda with coke- you'll have a volcano!

I heard about the coke wash, too and have never tried it. I believe it though. It's really caustic. My Dr has a fit that I drink it.

Sorry you had to polish it off That was some bad contamination.

[Kate]

Tela, you've got me giggling! ;D I didn't mix the baking soda with coke! I just tried the baking soda and decided to buff it out. I've been spending so much time with this. I'm wondering if I need to activate the germanium in the argentium to slow the tarnishing process. I've read to do that I need to bake it a 100 degrees for three hours. Does anyone know about this?

I also just read that Harbor Freight tumblers (especially if they are fairly new - which mine is) sometimes have a problem with the rubber in the barrel leaching into the water and soap mix. I just found this article. www.cooltools.us/v/vspfiles/images/tumblercontamination.pdf I'll give the coke a try when we get back.

[Kate]

I was able to clean the barrel with baking soda and it worked a couple times. It cleaned up the gold and argentium. I used it again and again it came out grey. It's time to shop around. FDJ has Lortone and is near me. Should I be getting a double barrel or is a single OK? Is it necessary to use one for copper and one for silver and gold? I also see that FDJ has replacement barrels and I'm wondering if that would work with my Harbor Freight tumbler. I'm going to bring it along and see. The tumbler itself is like new, it's just the barrel that is leaching. Any ideas?

[shiny]

Are you mixing the argentium and the gold filled and tumbling them together? I don't use argentium, but my understanding is that the grayness comes from mixing metals. You might try tumbling metals separately and see if that helps.

[Kate]

When I first got the tumbler, I made an argentium ring and bracelet and tumbled it without a problem. After about six months I tumbled an argentium and gold chain maille bracelet. That's when it turned grey. I cleaned it with baking soda and it worked a couple of times. In between it was always cleaned. Now it's turning everything grey again. Very frustrating!

[wickwire]

Here's another article on tumbler barrel breakdown. They say the lesser quality rubber used in Chinese products can be the culprit.
chainweavers.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=31&chapter=50&zenid=4162f3be9ad2745f2e84a086ed8b4193

[livewire]

Thank you for that link, Nancy. The related articles are also interesting and pertinent.

Joyce

[shiny]

+6Another tumbling question: Tela, you mentioned using "a healthy squirt" of Dawn detergent. I've always heard (and used) a couple of drops. I would love to know what the rest of you use and how you use it.

Tela, don't you get a barrel full of soapsuds?

[Tela]

Great info here! I have a lortone and didn't know about the other barrels- good to know.

I use concentrated Dawn and I just add a healthy squirt- probably about 1/2 tablespoon or more. I don't measure, I just squirt it in. No, my barrel isn't full of suds. There's a little at the top, but not much so that it would matter. I used to wonder myself when I switched from Ivory bar soap, but I have had no problems.

[Kate]

I ended up being able to buy a Lortone barrel. It fits on my Harbor Freight tumbler. I've already tumbled the gold and argentium chain maille bracelet. After a half an hour its nice and shiney again. The Harbor freight barrels and known (little did I know back when I bought it) for the rubber leaching.