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Post by Tela on Jan 15, 2012 10:42:08 GMT -5
This probably sounds like a dumb question, but I can't find a definitive answer anywhere. Maybe, WW, Joyce or someone with more experience than me can answer this.
I am working on a fused silver form with the torch. I have needed to resize it a few times, by taking little nips out of the wire to shorten a side. I figured that I don't have to pickle between each torching. (right?) Now, I am ready to hammer. Do I pickle before I hammer??? I know I should remove contaminants, like marker marks, before hammering- does that apply to firescale, too??
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Post by livewire on Jan 15, 2012 15:42:25 GMT -5
Tela, I have not had a lot of experience hammering after soldering, but I have pickled before hammering. That's what I was told to do by my teacher.
Interestingly, I just got a book on making handmade findings that doesn't mention pickle. After balling or annealing sterling, they recommend removing the oxidation with steel wool.
I prefer not to use steel wool, but I found some extra fine "scrubbies" at a woodworking shop that are equivalent to 0000 steel wool.
Joyce
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Post by Tela on Jan 15, 2012 15:50:52 GMT -5
Thank you, Joyce! Since this is a learning process and I am impatient when working on a project- I went ahead and hammered before pickling. It was such a small amount, I figured it would be ok and it was THANK GOODNESS. I think if I were hammering more, I would have pickled first. After hammering, I pickled and it all came off ok.
For small amounts of torching- like balls- I find steel wool to work fine, too. I don't like to use it, either. I'll have to find a finer scotchbrite than I have, though.
The piece I just finished has a frame of argentium- boy was it a learning process. I'll have to post it with my troubles.
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Post by livewire on Jan 15, 2012 16:00:14 GMT -5
Please do let us know about your Argentium experiences.
I have a very small amount of Argentium wire, to make findings for projects using purchased Argentium rings for chainmaille. I didn't know whether to heat it for strength, so I didn't.
Joyce
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Post by Tela on Jan 15, 2012 16:14:38 GMT -5
Joyce, I thought heating it softened it? The best thing about argentium, besides tarnish resistance, is that it fuses well without soldering. I'm having fun with it. Fine silver is far too soft. I've never liked to work with it.
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Post by livewire on Jan 15, 2012 16:27:46 GMT -5
The little I've read about Argentium speaks of heating for strength. I don't think it's like annealing. You bake finished pieces in your oven.
Joyce
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Post by wirewrangler on Jan 15, 2012 20:01:36 GMT -5
Hi Tela,
So, you solved your problem before I ever saw it! So sorry, but then you never know when you may have those epiphanies or breakthroughs when you break the rules! Experimenting is such fun!
I gather you were working with Argentium?
Here is the sequence, usually with Argentium: Saw, drill and/or form the metal (hammer whatever); solder (or fuse) and pickle; Harden in an oven or kiln; pickle & rinse, polish & clean. From here the process depends upon which finish, satin or shiny.
As to Joyces' question re: the difference between annealing and precipitation or heat-hardening. You do both with Argentium. Annealing to soften & Argentium has a lower annealing temperature than traditional sterling. Using flux and a permanent pen help to find the annealing point of Argentium, many who start with sterling tend to fry the Argentium at first. One thing to remember with Argentium is that it can be fragile when red-hot. Handle with care.
Precipitation or Heat/hardening not only hardens the Argentium, but it also brings the germanium layer to the surface and therefore, maximizes the tarnish resistant qualities that we all like about the Argentium. Air cooling is another Argentium specific tip. After annealing or soldering, allow the Argentium to air-cool to room temperature. No quenching, although you can quench, but very carefully.
Another tip: avoid cross contaminating your Argentium, particularly with CU and brass.
If you have not found Cynthia Eid, please google her, she is the "Guru" when it comes to Argentium. Studying her experience before starting in Argentium saved me many a headache.
Happy Flaming!
WW
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Post by Tela on Jan 15, 2012 20:09:59 GMT -5
Ahhhh, lots of good info there, WW. After I thought about it, I remembered reading about the low temp hardening. I'll have to keep that in mind. If I hadn't hammered it, I would have needed to throw it in the oven (before the stone went in). I'll up Cynthia Eid. Thanks  |
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Post by livewire on Jan 15, 2012 21:59:10 GMT -5
WW, is there a "formula" for precipitation of Argentium? I have a fairly heavy maille necklace that I haven't heat hardened, and I'd like to. At what temperature and for how long?
Also, I have rings for another chainmaille necklace that are Argentium, yellow gold-filled and rose gold-filled. Can/should that be heat-hardened after completion?
Joyce
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Post by Tela on Jan 15, 2012 22:03:15 GMT -5
Wow, I'm in hog heaven!!! I have a teeny tiny, perfect Persian blue turquoise that I just fused a 13x9 frame for and even managed to successfully fuse a tiny jumpring to. This is going to be addictive, I can see that. It's fun to watch that moment when the metal fuses together. ;D ;D
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Post by Tela on Jan 15, 2012 22:09:44 GMT -5
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Post by wirewrangler on Jan 15, 2012 23:15:13 GMT -5
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Post by Tela on Jan 16, 2012 11:35:29 GMT -5
Another thank you, WW. Have you done this yourself?
I was laying awake last night thinking of ways to harden before setting when using wire wrap. I don't think a lot cabs would survive the heat. But, then they do get pretty hot on the wheel. Hmmmm. I have some junky ones to play with.
I have so many new ideas to explore and not enough hours in the day.
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Kate
Full Member
Posts: 109
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Post by Kate on Jan 16, 2012 12:01:04 GMT -5
Thank you all for sharing this. I've had a problem with a chain maille bracelet made with argentium and gold. The gold has harden but not the argentium. I did have it in the oven but maybe not long enough. Last time I wore it, one of the jump rings pulled and came loose. I'm going to check out these links!
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Post by Tela on Jan 16, 2012 13:01:41 GMT -5
I think you'll find that article interesting. I'm really glad to get so many great answers to this. Thank you, I love being able to share with like minded people. |
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